Since Friday I have been searching, scratching, crumbling up dozens of pieces of paper and continually cursing at my feeble attempts to hammer together a Daemonkin army that fits my interpretation of a competitive Khorne army (or as close as I can get it). I've come to the conclusion that the new Khorne codex is pretty much more of the same for Khorne but with added points taxes that makes army list creation clunkier. I have also come full circle from trying to fit a Blood Host Detachment into my list to finally admitting defeat at that notion because of the Possessed tax.Overall, I still love the codex, it looks a heck of a lot of fun and the Blood Tithe system is just great - it's both fluffy and it gives a much needed boost to mono-Khorne armies. I just run into a problem when trying to hash together a tournament army - it seems that the more things change the more they stay the same with Chaos. All the same units that were crappy are still crappy and all the good units are still good. Only now I have to deal with some slight points increases due to Blood for the Blood God! and Mark of Khorne taxes. It doesn't seem like that would amount to very much but it does, throwing a monkey wrench in my army plans, especially when you factor in that the good Formations and the Blood Host Detachment impose unwanted unit taxes on your army.
Meet the Twice-Damned Bloodsworn Warband
OK, here is my first attempt at a tournament list. I had to do a lot of compromising on my part, for instance I wanted more Chaos Spawn to be zipping around but meh, can't have everything. My list is called the Twice-Damned because it is an exercise in duplication of units - except for those three Maulerfiends, they just had to go and be all different. I will lay out the list and explain my reasonings for what is in it afterwards.
KHORNE DAEMONKIN CAD
HQ
Chaos Lord - mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Juggernaut, Kor'lath, the Axe of Ruin, power fist
Chaos Lord - mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Juggernaut, Blood Forged Armor, power fist, lightning claw
TROOPS
Bloodletters x8 - blood reaper
Chaos Cultists x8
Chaos Cultists x8
FAST
Chaos Spawn x1
Chaos Spawn x1
HEAVY
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
GOREPACK FORMATION
Chaos Bikers x3 - melta-gun x1
Chaos Bikers x3
Flesh Hounds x15
Flesh Hounds x15
=1847
So just like my old Chaos Space Marines tournament army this one is designed to hit hard with threat overloads barreling right at the enemy. My old list had Be'lakor and Invisibility for the Khorne Dawgs but I decided to forgo that this time even though that is one of the best competitive equalizers Chaos has going for it. I hope I don't regret dropping Invisibility.
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| The Immortal Reaver, my Chaos Lord of Khorne. |
These guys make use of some of the new changes, and advantages, of the new codex. For starters they can now team up with Daemons so they each have a pack of 15 Khorne Dawgs to run with. That is 30 ablative wounds with 5++. I think they can make it into melee alright unless they run into uber-shooting sissy Tau or sissy Eldar.
My Lords also make good use of the new Khorne Artefacts, the best ones are pricey but man they can be game changers. I am going to play test these out and see if they are worth the price tags but from what I am seeing I think they might be.
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| OH YEAH!!! |
Yep, I'm using this Lord as my Warlord and I don't care if he dies because he has an extra lease on life.
Blood Forged Armor - Cost aside, this is a great piece of wargear. Eternal Warrior plus Feel No Pain! I can't tell you how many times my JuggerLords have had to dodge S 10 and Instant Death slinging enemies. No more! This armor gives my Lord the gravitas to go toe to toe with any enemy now - as it should be.
Lastly, I have the choice to put these guys together in one Khorne Dawg pack for a deathstar configuration or Scout/Outflank them with their Dawgs. It's nice to have flexible options for my JuggerLords for a change instead of just grouping them up with those boring Chaos Spawn.
Here is where my last tournament list was weakest because I had so little troops I ended up doing not so good with Maelstrom mission points (something a lot of tournaments are using). I'm rocking four troops this time (a double improvement) , 2 for my second wave and 2 for my third wave. The Bloodletters are part of the second wave and will pop in where needed to clean up for the first wave or grab some objectives. Obviously the cultists are there for backfield objectives. All of these guys all have Objective Secured, so ha.
Do take heed and remember that champions net you a Blood Tithe point if they get killed or defeat an enemy character in a challenge so try to upgrade for unit characters if you can. Thus, I purchased the Blood Reapers for my Bloodletters to try and get those extra Blood points.
Fast
I'm sad. I wanted lots of Chaos Spawn to zip around in packs to cause havoc and die for Blood Tithe points. Oh well, not enough points to do this. These guys will carry out either of two missions; to run and grab Objectives (which they do well with 12" movement) or they provide distraction and run at the enemy. I like that they are flexible in helping with objectives and if they die it is no big deal, in fact it will be a Blood Tithe gain.
Heavy
My favorite bunch of guys, my three Maulerfiends, all kitted out with melta. They are part of the first wave and my first offense against vehicles and Knights. Maulerfiends are among the best distraction units in the game because opponents just poop bricks when they see three of them set up against them.
GorepackThis formation hands out some great Hammer of Wrath (HoW) bonuses with re-rolling failed HoW wounds for bikes and Flesh Hounds gain HoW attacks. Yeah, that makes my Dawgs even that more dangerous to get charged by.
The Chaos Bikes are really just a tax for this formation although I can put them to good use in the first or second wave. The first wave for distraction and the second (or later) wave for zipping around and grabbing objectives. Let us not forget about their other use, the Champions can be turned into a Prince or a Bloodthrister with enough Blood Tithe points!
The Khorne Dawgs, along with the Lords they escort, are the big threat of this list. With no Daemonic Instability to worry about they will hang around longer in a fight. Something else also new to this codex is that they can Scout Chaos Lords closer to the enemy or, my favorite, Outflank. Outflank probably isn't going to be the best option for most games but if you are playing against a gunline, ork tide or an Adamantium Lance you can pop your Dawgs and Lords on the flank of the enemy (or behind) and hopefully wreak some havoc on squishy units - delicious Blood Tithe points!
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| My Lord and his Dawgs outflanking for the win. |
This is my best attempt so far to make a competitive Khorne Daemonkin list and I will see how it goes. With any luck I will be able to rub enough Blood Tithe points together for some Feel No Pain or Daemon summoning hi-jinks because that is what really makes the new codex different and a boon to a mono-Khorne army. I suspect this army will probably perform about as good as my last Chaos tournament army and win maybe fifty percent of the time, it all depends on if my duplication of big threats is enough to overcome the lack of invisibility.
I just don't see this codex as a game changer for tournament play, although the Blood Tithe and other new mechanics will make your Khorne armies better than before, no doubt.
So what do you guys think? All comments are welcome.
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| It's date night at the Khorne fraternity. |
The Gorepack is the standout for me so far. I don't think the bikers are that bad, especially with not impaling themselves on terrain any more, and preferred enemy psykers in today's environment can be handy. The book does seem to encourage certain types of play (MSU, units that can benefit from more of the blood tithe results) and I think particular event formats will help determine how viable playing "with the grain" will be.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Min bikes with meltas are fine and big dog units are fantastic!
DeleteYeah, you are right, chaos bikers are not bad at all, in fact they are a good unit. Personally I like using chaos spawn over them because I think spawn are more cost efficient. But I could be wrong because I don't have much experience with running bikers.
ReplyDeleteI would definitely drop that Axe because it is a waste of points. Your Bloodthirster will have to deep-strike, so automatically swoop (see Flying Monstrous Creatures Deployment), so it can only charge two turns later, by way stage it will have lost 2d3 wounds and the game might even be over.
ReplyDeleteI think the best set-up is a Lord and a Herald with the 3+ Armour, as the Herald can give the whole unit Hatred while the Lord goes into challenges. This with a large unit of Bloodcrushers or Flesh Hounds can kill most units in the game.
In addition, Bikers have access to two meltaguns and a combi-melta, which is great in a force with little anti-tank shooting.
DeleteThe Axe of Ruin's rule says that the bloodthirster loses d3 wounds at the end of your remaining turns. The way it is worded makes me think that it does not take the wounds at the end of the round it appears because "remaining" implies not the current turn. Or so that is how I interpret it, anybody else have any ideas about this rule?
DeleteI kinda like the axe. .. but if you're gonig to use it, drop the other upgrades, waste of points. Aim to turn him into a prince.. keep the axe and gain a thirster. But seriously use the lord with the armour as your warlord...
ReplyDeleteThe spare points can max out meltas on your bikers.
I can't bring myself to drop belakor.. I think daemonkin will make good allies, but I can't fit any of the formations competatively... If i can get more bikes, the gorepack is great.
Loving the rules reminder badges
Yes, I agree, I will change the warlord to the blood forged armor lord. I think I will stay away from Princes for competitive play, they tend to fall over from shooting a lot which is why I like my juggerlords in a unit for protection.
DeleteHopefully I don't double post.
ReplyDeleteBut overall keep things cheap on the lord front. I think it works better to not invest so much into them and get other things. I also think 10 man dog units might be better. 160 pts is the same as 5 spawn - you get 5 more wounds, 5++ saves, more attacks on average, and hitting better etc. From there you can look at other things too - either go into the Slaughter Cult to gain more Blood Tithe per turn or maybe grinders instead of maulers.
You could also ally in another CSM ally to get other things. Another Jugger lord etc. Its a thought and yeah they don't generate as much blood tithe but it might be worth it. Heck I will write out the list later on today and try to post to my personal blog later on.
Ok Random points etc list.
ReplyDeleteDaemonkin CAD + Crimson Slaughter Ally
HQ: Chaos Lord, MoK, Jugger, Fist, Claw, Sigil
HQ: Chaos Lord, MoK, Jugger, Fist, Claw, Sigil
Troops: Cultists X 8
Troops: Cultists X 8
Troops: Cultists X 8
FA: Flesh Hounds X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds X 10
Heavy: Soul Grinder, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Maulerfiend
HQ: Chaos Lord, MoK, Juggernaut, Powerfist, Lightning Claw, Daemonheart, Sigil
Troops: Cultists X 10
Heavy: Maulerfiend
1844 - so you could put something on somewhere else - could go 4 Maulerfiends (which sounds kinda awesome actually). I added in Grinders to give some anti Air - but you might not need it. Again so many maulers sounds much more Chaos like hah.
But its where I think - you have 3 units scouting forward. You have enough other things move around. If you go 4 Maulerfiends it becomes a crazy dance party. Plus it is all Khorne :).
Goatboy! You will see a lot of models that you painted on this blog, hehe. Crazy dance party of Khorne, I love it. I like the list but I'd still want the eternal warrior armor on a lord, not having to worry about being punked by instant death is too good to pass up for me. What about sprinkling in some marines to have champions to sacrifice for a prince/thirster? Something to think about. And smaller khorne dawg units for my juggerlords is definitely something I am play testing with with good results so far.
DeleteI just really like the Soul Grinder for some reason. As well as the Maulerfiends.
DeleteI don't know - eternal warrior is cool - but it doesn't save me from knight attacks. It is just one of the things I look at cutting to save points.
Of course if I grab myself a new thirster I might want to summon more - but I have a feeling it will be on foot Daemon Princes most of the time.
I understand about the wingless prince but a winged prince/thrister isn't a bad idea for early game when lots of things are still on the board that can shoot at it. I was able to summon a winged prince turn 2 and even flying he got two wounds put on him so I was glad he was in the air!
DeleteA pack of daemon of khorne maulerfiends surrounding a tank with the legacy of 1st war of armageddon is very tempting.
ReplyDeleteI only have a land raider but would work well with a spartan/typhon/ warhound...
Similar list to what I use, the 3 Maulers + lord and spawn or hounds. I'll add Belakore and or Mutialtors for allies to keep the lord invisible and deepstrike some stuff that can't be ignored good example http://z4.invisionfree.com/Boot_Camp/index.php?showtopic=15990
ReplyDeleteHi fella
ReplyDeleteGood read and was interestead in the two melee weapons you give your lords.
I run a smmall army Lord on a juggernaut with 8 dawgs and goredrinker and melts bomb
Would a second melee weapon say a powerfist add any value?
Hi guy,
DeleteYes, a second weapon is a good value because it gives you more options, thus tactically more agile. In the case of your Goredrinker juggerlord a powefist can put more damage on walkers, vehicles, knights and monstrous creatures than a melta bomb ever will. Plus, that powerfist will instant kill T 4 or less foes which is always nice. And,do note, that the Goredrinker will 'power up' even if it is not the weapon that you are wounding your foes with!
I would switch on lord for a herald, just for the wrath loci:p
ReplyDeleteU can add pyfer into a large unit of dogs plus herald for hatred then add kharn. Gives whole unit shrouded and kharn rerolls 1s so he doesn't kill ur own models. Also with such a large unit ur using dogs to slingshot kharn and having 20 shrouded dogs with jugger lord herald kharn and pyfer is just fantastic. Have the first few in ruins and ur 2up cover for days.
ReplyDelete